Pathfinder: Break My Class Building/Multiclassing Rules

I’m looking for help in finding how/where this breaks and I think the best way to do that is to get more eyes on it.

The purpose of this is to give a different way to multi-class  which overcomes the issue of multiclassed characters not being as strong (depthwise) as single class characters.  For example a Monk 5/ Wizard 5 can only cast 3rd level spells, but a Wizard 10 can cast 5th level spells and get more dice of damage, higher DCs, etc.  Even for non-spellcasters this is a problem (although not as much.)

So my idea was to let players create new classes (even if they already have several levels of one class) by dropping a *set* of related class abilities and adding a different set from another class.  The trick is balancing what gets dropped with what gets added.  So you may be a druid that wants to have bloodline powers and feats from sorcerer.  Well, to do so you need to drop some thing(s).  You may need to tweak hit dice, skill points, armor allowed to get things to balance up because you need a few more points or you have some left over.

I know that dropping some abilities and adding others to an existing level 2+ character may seem strange, but that isn’t much different than what happens with the default multiclassing.  Maybe force a story reason or require the character to go through some weeks/months of training.

So back to the system, there are Class Creation Points (CCP) for lack of a better term.  Each class is balanced to have/use 1000 points.

The easiest way to multiclass/class blend is to look at the ability set(s) you want from the class that is less similar to your overall concept and note the points needed to get those ability sets(s).  Then look at the class that is more similar to your overall concept and see what you can drop that doesn’t fit your concept.  If you can drop enough points right off the bat, great.  If not, then you’ll have to pick some things that you hoped to keep but hopefully aren’t too critical to your concept.  (You or at least the GM doesn’t want to overpower the class.)

You could also combine three or more classes in a similar way or build the class from scratch.

Also note that you can get or spend some points by changing the BAB progression the class uses, number of skill points per level, armor allowed, weapons allowed, and Hit Dice.  (Swapping saving throw charts doesn’t change the point values nor does switching which skills are class skills.

So with that out of the way, here are the CCP values for those common class attributes (hit die, BAB progression chart, etc.) and the point values for the ability sets of a few classes:

Basics

Hit Die: d6: 0CCP; d8: 60CCP; d10: 120CCP; d12: 180CCP;

Base Attack Bonus: Low (as Wizard): 0CCP; Medium (as Bard) 60CCP; High (as Fighter) 120CCP;

Skill Points/Level: 2: 0CCP; 4: 60CCP; 6: 120CCP; 8: 180CCP;

Armor: None: 0CCP; Light 20CCP; Light&Medium but no metal: 35 CCP; Light and Medium: 40CCP; Light, Medium and Heavy: 65; Add Shields: 15; Add Shields including tower shields: 20;

Weapons: Just a few: 0CCP; Simple: 20CCP; Simple plus a few others: 40CCP; Simple and Martial: 60CCP;

Barbarian Based Class Abilities

250CCP Rage abilities: Rage @1; Rage Power @2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20; Greater Rage @11; Indomitable Will @14; Tireless Rage @17; Mighty Rage @20

50CCP Maneuverability: Fast Movement @1; Uncanny dodge @2; Improved uncanny dodge @5

50CCP Trap Sense: Trap Sense +1 @3; Trap Sense +2 @6; Trap Sense +3 @9; Trap Sense +4 @12; Trap Sense +5 @15; Trap Sense +6 @18

175CCP Damage Reduction: Damage reduction 1/- @7; Damage reduction 2/- @10; Damage reduction 3/- @13; Damage reduction 4/- @16; Damage reduction 5/- @19

Druid Based Class Abilities

390CCP Spells as Druid

90CCP Orisons

85CCP Nature Bond

85CCP Other Nature Abilities: Nature Sense @1; Wild Empathy @1; Woodland Stride @2; Trackless Step @3; Resist Nature’s Lure @4; Venom Immunity @9; A Thousand Faces @13; Timeless body @15

120CCP Wild Shape

Rogue Based Class Abilities

160CCP Sneak Attack: 1d6 @1; 2d6 @3; 3d6 @5; 4d6 @7; 5d6 @9; 6d6 @11; 7d6 @13; 8d6 @15; 9d6 @17; 10d6 @19; Master strike @20

135CCP Trapfinding/sense: Trapfinding@1; Trap Sense +1 @3; Trap Sense +2 @6; Trap sense +3 @9; Trap Sense +4 @12; Trap Sense +5 @15; trap sense +6 @18;

75CCP Maneuverability: Evasion @2; Uncanny Dodge; Improved Uncanny Dodge @8

270CCP Rogue Talents: Rogue Talents @2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20; Advanced Talents @10

Sorcerer Based Class Abilities

510CCP Spells as a Sorcerer

100CCP Cantrips

10CCP Eschew Materials

150CCP Bloodline Powers: @1, 3, 9, 15, 20

80CCP Bloodline Feats: @7, 13, 19

130CCP Bloodline Spells: @ 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19

Example: Druid with Bloodlines

So say you have a concept of a Druid that has bloodlines (perhaps celestial, elemental, fey, etc, but the specific bloodline doesn’t matter for the example.)

To gain Bloodline Powers, it will cost 150CCP, bloodline feats are 80CCP and bloodline spells are 130CCP for a total of 360CCP.  To free up that many CCP, one would have to drop all the Druid’s abilities except his core spellcasting.  Even if we drop the ability for this new druid to use armor of any kind the new druid would only be able to keep his spells and orisons (or spells and nature bond or spells and the “other nature abilities” set.)

Actually, that might fit one concept of a Druid/Sorcerer, but I’m hoping to retain a bit more of the Druid’s abilities. So if we try to use just the bloodline powers and spells from the Sorcerer it will cost 150+130=280CCP.  Dropping the armor allowed gives us 50 points back.  Dropping the nature bond ability gives another 85 points back and dropping the other nature skills gives another 85 points, for a total of 220.  To get the other 60, I’d drop this new Bloodline Druid’s skill points to 2/level instead of the Druid’s 4/level.  But one could also drop the BAB from medium to low to get the other 60 points.

Other Notes

Things don’t have to come out perfectly.  If you are 5 or 10 CCP over or under the class is likely still balanced.  If you and/or your GM wish, you can alter the levels that some of the abilities are gained by the character of the class.  Lower the levels if you have some leftover CCP or raise them if your new class is a few CCP short.

I am tinkering with allowing classes to pick up more limited spellcasting.  This could take the form of 75CCP + 60CCP/school in the case of the sorcerer’s spellcasting, for example.  But with the many new classes (oracle, inquisitor, etc.) there will be even more options.

So as alluded to in the title, can you develop a class using this system that is broken?  How would you fix it?

1 Comment on “Pathfinder: Break My Class Building/Multiclassing Rules

  1. what if someone wanted a class that only gets rage powers occasionally, or only gets sneak attack up to 4d6?
    it might be better to rank progression, like:
    sorcerer caster levels: [X]CCP.
    how many CCP are bonus feats?
    what if you wanted fewer 9th level spells in exchange for a larger number of 3rd level spells (known/per day)?